gnasher729
Jul 20, 01:06 PM
I have a question.
If Kentsfield is a relation of the Conroe part (ie. Core 2 Duo) then will it be capable of being configured in a pair to create a "octo" core machine?
Surely that will require a Xeon class processor (like a quad version of the Woodcrest)?
Most likely not. The other question is: Is it easy to plug a Kentsfield into a machine designed for Conroe (not for the end user, but for Apple), and is it easy to plug two Clovertowns into a machine designed for two Woodcrests?
If Kentsfield is a relation of the Conroe part (ie. Core 2 Duo) then will it be capable of being configured in a pair to create a "octo" core machine?
Surely that will require a Xeon class processor (like a quad version of the Woodcrest)?
Most likely not. The other question is: Is it easy to plug a Kentsfield into a machine designed for Conroe (not for the end user, but for Apple), and is it easy to plug two Clovertowns into a machine designed for two Woodcrests?
ryanw
Aug 25, 09:26 PM
Funny how I just came across this thread, as I'm in the middle of an Apple support nightmare as well (I have one of those MacBooks that just turns itself off for no reason - completely unacceptable). I have been routed through 12 people over 3 calls, with several promises of "expedited resolution"s but no tangible result.
Although it's possible (and likely) that the prevalence of the MacBook defects have been overblown, I do know that Apple's support process puts you through a lot of hoops to get any major issue resolved (e.g., replacing a clearly defective product). Each person I've talked to has been courteous, but in the end I still have no faith in their ability to actually solve my problem in a timely manner.
Frustrated Apple User
I've seen this happen to me personally... the macbook just shuts down on me. I "THINK" I have linked it to the magnetic money clip in my pocket. I THINK when I put the macbook on my lap it thinks I have shut the cover due to the magnetic latch. Is it possible you're putting near or on something magnetic?
Although it's possible (and likely) that the prevalence of the MacBook defects have been overblown, I do know that Apple's support process puts you through a lot of hoops to get any major issue resolved (e.g., replacing a clearly defective product). Each person I've talked to has been courteous, but in the end I still have no faith in their ability to actually solve my problem in a timely manner.
Frustrated Apple User
I've seen this happen to me personally... the macbook just shuts down on me. I "THINK" I have linked it to the magnetic money clip in my pocket. I THINK when I put the macbook on my lap it thinks I have shut the cover due to the magnetic latch. Is it possible you're putting near or on something magnetic?
Multimedia
Jul 23, 08:28 PM
So you don't expect the Mac Pro at WWDC?? Or only a dual core version using Conroe?
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.Not really. Yorkfield is the 8 core follow on to Kentsfield in the Conroe class motherboard. Should be shipping by next Spring.So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.Given the above reasons, I expect it will be the former. The whole line will be Conroe based EXCEPT for the ONE top model which will be based on a Woodcrest MoBo etc so each time the top doubles it's core count from 4 to 8 then 16, the lower models double theirs from 2 to 4 then 8, all in less than a year from now.Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.I think it's safe to say we may witness the fastest acceleration in affordable computing power in the history of personal computing during this next year.
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.Not really. Yorkfield is the 8 core follow on to Kentsfield in the Conroe class motherboard. Should be shipping by next Spring.So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.Given the above reasons, I expect it will be the former. The whole line will be Conroe based EXCEPT for the ONE top model which will be based on a Woodcrest MoBo etc so each time the top doubles it's core count from 4 to 8 then 16, the lower models double theirs from 2 to 4 then 8, all in less than a year from now.Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.I think it's safe to say we may witness the fastest acceleration in affordable computing power in the history of personal computing during this next year.
Multimedia
Sep 13, 01:21 PM
A bit pointless given that no software utilises the extra cores yet. But nice to know, I guess.No software such as, Cinema 4D, Motion, Aperture, Final Cut Pro etcNo software such as Toast 7.1, Handbrake UB. More to the point is not how many cores an application can use but rather how many things you can get done at once. :rolleyes:From my usage of FCP, Compressor, Aperture and DVDSP, they work very well with the MacPro but I haven't seen them approach usage of even 3 full cores.
Ability to multistask is great but I would not say that any one of the above is using all cores the way we want them to. I would contend that this is coming and pointed out in another thread that some of the FCP benchmarks on Apple's MacPro performance page are footnoted that the figures given were using Beta version of FCP.I think in the next few months the full FCS and Logic will get an update to address this.
Ability to multistask is great but I would not say that any one of the above is using all cores the way we want them to. I would contend that this is coming and pointed out in another thread that some of the FCP benchmarks on Apple's MacPro performance page are footnoted that the figures given were using Beta version of FCP.I think in the next few months the full FCS and Logic will get an update to address this.
jfinn1976
Jun 14, 03:56 PM
My local RS said 7:30 pre-orders start on tues the 15th, I sure hope you don't wait until thurs.
MCIowaRulz
Apr 5, 08:35 PM
4GB download with in-app purchases for content would be my guess.
I hope they ship it on DVD as i'm not going to tie up my Internet connection for 3 hrs while it downloads:(
I hope they ship it on DVD as i'm not going to tie up my Internet connection for 3 hrs while it downloads:(
Shagrat
Jul 15, 02:00 AM
Here (http://www.ntius.com/default.asp?p=dragonburn/dburn4_main) you go.
(re Dragon burn...)
looks like a good app, and the price is good, but it seems as if it is for PPC mac only if their downloadable manual is to be believed. Anybody know if there is a Universal binary in the offing? Need a burn program for my (Non-Mooing!) Macbook!
(re Dragon burn...)
looks like a good app, and the price is good, but it seems as if it is for PPC mac only if their downloadable manual is to be believed. Anybody know if there is a Universal binary in the offing? Need a burn program for my (Non-Mooing!) Macbook!
amin
Aug 18, 10:28 PM
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
aloshka
Apr 25, 03:08 PM
My Garmin saves way points too!
SUE THEM!!!! I don't understand how my personal information can be on my phone. I'm suing everyone! I'm suing mac rumors too, because I just posted a private message, and it's visible on this forum.
SUE THEM!!!! I don't understand how my personal information can be on my phone. I'm suing everyone! I'm suing mac rumors too, because I just posted a private message, and it's visible on this forum.
Mike84
Apr 25, 03:29 PM
As I pointed out in my earlier blog posting (LINK (http://markshangout.com/blog/2011/4/25/apple-gets-sued-yes-again.html)), until somebody proves that Apple is both collecting the to their servers AND using the data in a manner that allows them to personally identify a specific user, this lawsuit is meritless and a waste of the court's time.
Mark
The lawsuit would still be meritless unless Apple was violating some act of Congress or state law. It seems these two idiot lawyers have not alleged that, therefore the lawsuit would still be meritless.
Mark
The lawsuit would still be meritless unless Apple was violating some act of Congress or state law. It seems these two idiot lawyers have not alleged that, therefore the lawsuit would still be meritless.
weg
Aug 8, 04:23 AM
heh... they give MS so much crap for photocopying, but if anything, this is more or less taking a page out of MS's book with System Restore. Granted, it looks like it will be better, but still, MS had this kind of thing first.
Not trolling, just pointing it out :)
This is in line with their other "innovations":
Spaces? Wow. A blatant Desktop Manager (http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/) rip-off, and Linux supports virtual desktops since 20 years.
Multiuser support for iCal? I'm sure Microsoft will copy that immediately.. oh, wait... Outlook supports that since years.
Time Machine? This feature is overly complicated.. nothing but a fancy undo option. Lots of eye candy.
Not trolling, just pointing it out :)
This is in line with their other "innovations":
Spaces? Wow. A blatant Desktop Manager (http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/) rip-off, and Linux supports virtual desktops since 20 years.
Multiuser support for iCal? I'm sure Microsoft will copy that immediately.. oh, wait... Outlook supports that since years.
Time Machine? This feature is overly complicated.. nothing but a fancy undo option. Lots of eye candy.
colinbm
Apr 27, 08:27 AM
For those of you saying you found it cool, download any of the various geotagging apps and run that. You can then plot your location on a map and get the accuracy of GPS too.
Multimedia
Sep 14, 12:23 PM
i think they're coming up with 2 dual octo-core.......True That. But not until next summer 2007.
iJohnHenry
Apr 27, 10:29 AM
More like arguing about where the dessert forks and soup spoons go in the place settings. I don't think lifeboats have even entered into the conversation.
I believe the 'long form' is rearranging the deck chairs. :)
I believe the 'long form' is rearranging the deck chairs. :)
Machead III
Sep 19, 03:50 AM
It would be fantastic for the MacBook to have the Core 2 Duo, (MacBookPro is a given), the fact is, Apple needs to do this update to stay in the same ballpark as the pc notebook makers.
Now if they could just give the MacBook a real graphics card, I'd be a taker.
Randy at MacSeven.com (http://www.MacSeven.com)
The fact that we all want dedicated graphics and it's a no-brainer to add it, means that it won't happen.
Now if they could just give the MacBook a real graphics card, I'd be a taker.
Randy at MacSeven.com (http://www.MacSeven.com)
The fact that we all want dedicated graphics and it's a no-brainer to add it, means that it won't happen.
iris_failsafe
Nov 28, 06:33 PM
Those idiots never learn...
They will bring their industry to its knees until one day noone will use them...
I don't think Stevo we'll even or should discuss the subject...
They will bring their industry to its knees until one day noone will use them...
I don't think Stevo we'll even or should discuss the subject...
benthewraith
Nov 28, 07:48 PM
If we're already paying a royalty on blank CD-Rs because they say we are using Limewire, then aren't those of who aren't using Limewire essentially paying to use a service which we are not using?
By my logic, if we are already compensating the music industry through our purchases, we should then be entitled to use the services I just found out from these posts that we are paying for!
They'd have us go back to CD-format if they could, and impose whatever restrictions necessary to control whatever we do.
By my logic, if we are already compensating the music industry through our purchases, we should then be entitled to use the services I just found out from these posts that we are paying for!
They'd have us go back to CD-format if they could, and impose whatever restrictions necessary to control whatever we do.
Multimedia
Aug 26, 09:44 PM
May have been said, but ship dates on iMacs are 7-10 days.Tonight NBC News noted that there is a combined Back To School K-12 $17.6 Billion + College $36.6 Billion = $54.2 Billion in play right now - much of it for Consumer Electronics - particularly computers. Add in the switch to Core 2 and we are looking at an impossible situation to predict what is happening with regard to and of the supply backlog.
This is the second largest buying season only trumped by the end of the year holidays. Given this reality, I think we all need to try and exercise maximum patience and skip all the speculation why "clues" mean what. Any "clues" could have multiple reasons in this moment. :eek: :confused: ;)Post #90 Here in Los Angeles, I have been to a couple of apple stores, and a couple of best buy stores in the apple section. Everytime I was in those places, there were obviously college kids with their parents purchasing new macs, particularly the regular macbook. The apple stores especially were swamped with college bound students.
This is a huge time for all computer manufacturers, and laptops are big sellers for college kids. Shortages are bound to happen. I hope this doesn't affect my MBP making it to a store near me sooner rather than later, but I have a feeling it will. I do feel confident however, that within the next 3 to 4 weeks, I will have, or will have on order a new merom MBP. I hope. :)Me too. ;)
Also Soon:
MacBook Pro 17"
Easy Access HD Bay
2.33 GHz Merom
1 GB DDR2 RAM + 1 or 2 GB Third Party Stick
Black Anodized Aluminum
$2799 + 30" Dell on 20% off Sale $1520 = My ultimate Core 2 Duo Starter Kit for only $4319 + $346 CA sales tax = $4665 . :p
Makes me think twice about a Mac Pro refurb as the way to go. :D
This is the second largest buying season only trumped by the end of the year holidays. Given this reality, I think we all need to try and exercise maximum patience and skip all the speculation why "clues" mean what. Any "clues" could have multiple reasons in this moment. :eek: :confused: ;)Post #90 Here in Los Angeles, I have been to a couple of apple stores, and a couple of best buy stores in the apple section. Everytime I was in those places, there were obviously college kids with their parents purchasing new macs, particularly the regular macbook. The apple stores especially were swamped with college bound students.
This is a huge time for all computer manufacturers, and laptops are big sellers for college kids. Shortages are bound to happen. I hope this doesn't affect my MBP making it to a store near me sooner rather than later, but I have a feeling it will. I do feel confident however, that within the next 3 to 4 weeks, I will have, or will have on order a new merom MBP. I hope. :)Me too. ;)
Also Soon:
MacBook Pro 17"
Easy Access HD Bay
2.33 GHz Merom
1 GB DDR2 RAM + 1 or 2 GB Third Party Stick
Black Anodized Aluminum
$2799 + 30" Dell on 20% off Sale $1520 = My ultimate Core 2 Duo Starter Kit for only $4319 + $346 CA sales tax = $4665 . :p
Makes me think twice about a Mac Pro refurb as the way to go. :D
spazzcat
Mar 22, 01:36 PM
Sorry, completely forgot about that.
iOS rocks in apps, but it does suck *** in terms of notifications and true multitasking.
Apple should've been the ones to buy Palm.
Apples multitasking is way better they anything out there. On these devices battery rules all...
iOS rocks in apps, but it does suck *** in terms of notifications and true multitasking.
Apple should've been the ones to buy Palm.
Apples multitasking is way better they anything out there. On these devices battery rules all...
ValSalva
Apr 6, 11:10 AM
I still don't think this means new MacBook Airs in June. Can anyone really see Apple releasing new hardware before Lion is released?
hyperpasta
Aug 5, 04:50 PM
I'd be willing to bet that there will be at least two major surprises on Monday, one to do with some fab capability in Leopard that Apple has succeeded in keeping us in the dark about, and one fab piece of consumer hardware. By the second, I don't mean something we all expect like Mac Pros or Meroms in the MBPs. I mean something radical. Something that will make some real headlines.
They can't do things according to their old schedules now that they are on with Intel. Get used to new patterns. Apple is coming out of the shadows now, with sales and mindshare building at a strong pace. Waiting until January to annouce big new consumer pushes because WWDC is for developers won't do anymore. Welcome to the new Apple.
Think big. It's okay. Apple won't disappoint.
I will remember you said that when the announcements are dissapointing :)
Maybe they will and maybe they won't. But in the mean time, it's best to be conservative and hope we might be surprised.
They can't do things according to their old schedules now that they are on with Intel. Get used to new patterns. Apple is coming out of the shadows now, with sales and mindshare building at a strong pace. Waiting until January to annouce big new consumer pushes because WWDC is for developers won't do anymore. Welcome to the new Apple.
Think big. It's okay. Apple won't disappoint.
I will remember you said that when the announcements are dissapointing :)
Maybe they will and maybe they won't. But in the mean time, it's best to be conservative and hope we might be surprised.
HecubusPro
Aug 26, 10:02 PM
Tonight NBC News noted that there is a combined Back To School K-12 $17.6 Billion + College $36.6 Billion = $54.2 Billion in play right now - much of it for Consumer Electronics - especially computers. Add in the switch to Core 2 and we are looking at an impossible situation to predict what is happening with regard to any of the supply shortages.
This is the second largest buying season only trumped by the end of the year holidays. Given this reality, I think we all need to try and exercise maximum patience and skip all the speculation why "clues" mean what. Any "clues" could have multiple reasons in this moment. :eek: :confused: ;)
Here in Los Angeles, I have been to a couple of apple stores, and a couple of best buy stores in the apple section. Everytime I was in those places, there were obviously college kids with their parents purchasing new macs, particularly the regular macbook. The apple stores especially were swamped with college bound students.
This is a huge time for all computer manufacturers, and laptops are big sellers for college kids. Shortages are bound to happen. I hope this doesn't affect my MBP making it to a store near me sooner rather than later, but I have a feeling it will. I do feel confident however, that within the next 3 to 4 weeks, I will have, or will have on order a new merom MBP. I hope. :)
This is the second largest buying season only trumped by the end of the year holidays. Given this reality, I think we all need to try and exercise maximum patience and skip all the speculation why "clues" mean what. Any "clues" could have multiple reasons in this moment. :eek: :confused: ;)
Here in Los Angeles, I have been to a couple of apple stores, and a couple of best buy stores in the apple section. Everytime I was in those places, there were obviously college kids with their parents purchasing new macs, particularly the regular macbook. The apple stores especially were swamped with college bound students.
This is a huge time for all computer manufacturers, and laptops are big sellers for college kids. Shortages are bound to happen. I hope this doesn't affect my MBP making it to a store near me sooner rather than later, but I have a feeling it will. I do feel confident however, that within the next 3 to 4 weeks, I will have, or will have on order a new merom MBP. I hope. :)
ed233
Jul 28, 02:02 PM
Do you have any links that describe Merom's SpeedStep compared to Yonah's? I thought Yonah's was quite good, allowing you to reduce both clock speed and voltage simultaneously. It is always a problem with Intel, they say "improved SpeedStep", but they never tell you "improved compared to what".
I was able to find this about Conroe's implementation, which sounds fairly impressive:
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3620036
The Conroe core includes support for Intel SpeedStep technology, and in an attempt to lower power and heat requirements, it emulates a mobile processor by lowering the multiplier when idle or in low usage. In the case of the Core 2 Extreme and Duo processors we reviewed, that amounted to a 1.6 GHz clock speed at idle. The Conroe can immediately fire up at full speed and match the system load. Core voltages can also be lowered through similar techniques, such as Intelligent Power Capability, which can turn computing functions on and off when needed, in order to fully maximize power efficiency.
I was able to find this about Conroe's implementation, which sounds fairly impressive:
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3620036
The Conroe core includes support for Intel SpeedStep technology, and in an attempt to lower power and heat requirements, it emulates a mobile processor by lowering the multiplier when idle or in low usage. In the case of the Core 2 Extreme and Duo processors we reviewed, that amounted to a 1.6 GHz clock speed at idle. The Conroe can immediately fire up at full speed and match the system load. Core voltages can also be lowered through similar techniques, such as Intelligent Power Capability, which can turn computing functions on and off when needed, in order to fully maximize power efficiency.
mrkramer
Apr 27, 02:27 PM
First off, before the ignorant attacks begin, no I'm not a birther. I'm personally of the opinion that he was born in America and generally share the president's feelings that this is a giant waste of time.
Sorry, but your claim that you aren't a birther is like someone who says that they have a lot of friends who are black as an excuse to then say something racist. In this post and previous posts in the PRSI, you have shown that you clearly question where Obama was born.
That said, I don't think Obama should have released it, he has other more important things to do, and he's already proven his citizenship several times.
Sorry, but your claim that you aren't a birther is like someone who says that they have a lot of friends who are black as an excuse to then say something racist. In this post and previous posts in the PRSI, you have shown that you clearly question where Obama was born.
That said, I don't think Obama should have released it, he has other more important things to do, and he's already proven his citizenship several times.
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